05/23/02

[12:06] <Jay> hi gang
[12:07] <steele> hi
[12:07] <pdonnell> good afternoon, Professor
[12:07] <jjs> hi
[12:07] <Jay> today we gonna go over the basics that every newbies and even experienced trader needs to know
[12:07] <mikel> hello
[12:07] <Jay> even experienced guys get into slumps
[12:07] <Jay> its inevitable
[12:08] <Jay> there is no imgainary line that you cross as a trader and once you cross it, you live happily ever after
[12:08] <Jay> with no losing days
[12:08] <Jay> doesnt happen
[12:08] <Jay> let me show u what i see when i see a newbie coming into the pit
[12:08] <Jay> i am absolutely scared for them
[12:08] <Jay> scared
[12:08] <steele> im scared for myself:)
[12:08] <Jay> if they only knew
[12:09] <Jay> many are called
[12:09] <Jay> few are chosen
[12:09] <Jay> first and foremost
[12:09] <Jay> a newbie or anyone in a slump
[12:09] <mikel> are we talking about me??
[12:09] <Jay> needs to STOP TRADING
[12:09] <Jay> in the first place
[12:09] <Jay> what u need to do
[12:09] <Jay> is get back in TOUCH with your stock
[12:09] <Jay> even papertrading is something not worth doing
[12:10] <Jay> understand that once you get into a losing spiral
[12:10] <martinng> feel and touch your stock(s)
[12:10] <Jay> your judgement gets more impared
[12:10] <Jay> your objectivity gets more clouded
[12:10] <Jay> and the dollar signs force you to sweat squirm and panic
[12:10] <Jay> the death spiral
[12:10] <Jay> everyone goes through it
[12:10] <Jay> like a bad dream
[12:11] <Jay> the only thing u can do to remedy that dream
[12:11] <Jay> nightmare more like it
[12:11] <Jay> is to wake up
[12:11] <Jay> and that is to distance yourself from risk
[12:11] <Jay> safest position to be in is CASH
[12:11] <Jay> newbies eventually learn that the hard way
[12:12] <Jay> you've heard this cliche before and i'll say it again
[12:12] <Jay> trading is mostly MENTAL
[12:12] <Jay> psychological
[12:12] <Jay> and the FLAW ALWAYS lies in the excution
[12:12] <Jay> now this is what scares me
[12:12] <Jay> newbies dont even have a gameplan
[12:12] <Jay> nor do they know the tools
[12:12] <Jay> nor do they know the rhythm of their stocks
[12:13] <Jay> nor do they know anything
[12:13] <Jay> basically nothing more than a coin toss
[12:13] <Jay> and the best thing to happen to a newbie like that
[12:13] <Jay> is to blow out lose his money
[12:13] <Jay> and get a job
[12:13] <steele> ouch
[12:13] <Jay> be cause the house will always win
[12:13] <Jay> if you dont have an edge
[12:13] <Jay> i'm tellin it like it is
[12:13] <Jay> jsut like the worst thing to happen to a person who enters a casino
[12:13] <Jay> is to win
[12:14] <Jay> a weak person
[12:14] <Jay> trading is about MENTAL discipline
[12:14] <Jay> and that comes AFTER you learn the friggin tools
[12:14] <Jay> to put together the gameplan
[12:14] <Jay> everyone is hungry when they enter this game
[12:14] <Jay> i've heard it all
[12:14] <Jay> "i'm so hungry.. i'm do anything to be successful.. anythingggg!!!! "
[12:14] <Jay> BS
[12:14] <Jay> thats like a COIL
[12:14] <Jay> on a chart
[12:15] <Jay> a V shaped bounce
[12:15] <Jay> what do we often do on coils
[12:15] <Jay> short'em
[12:15] <Jay> why?
[12:15] <Jay> no followthru
[12:15] <Jay> market dont care how hungry you are
[12:15] <Jay> dont care how motivated you are
[12:15] <Jay> it sits and waits
[12:15] <Jay> and then kills you are your weak points
[12:15] <Jay> once the initial coil is over
[12:16] <Jay> takes u apart surgically piece by piece
[12:16] <Jay> so dont even tell me how hungry any of you are
[12:16] <Jay> i can usually tell whos gonna make it
[12:16] <Jay> after enough time
[12:16] <Jay> flaws show
[12:16] <Jay> what matters in this game
[12:16] <Jay> is followthrough
[12:16] <Jay> being hungry aint about puttin in 40 hours studying one week
[12:16] <Jay> and then flying by the seat of your pants the next
[12:16] <Jay> no followthru
[12:16] <Jay> thats a COIL
[12:17] <Jay> shortlived
[12:17] <Jay> you want to learn this game
[12:17] <Jay> start from the beginning
[12:17] <Jay> failing that
[12:17] <Jay> you will be another victim
[12:17] <Jay> of the market
[12:17] <bigkahuna> roadkill
[12:17] <Jay> if you are hungry
[12:17] <Jay> truly hungry
[12:17] <Jay> then you will listen to what i am going to say
[12:17] <Jay> print this out
[12:17] <Jay> post it
[12:17] <Jay> read it everyday
[12:17] <Jay> i'm gonna give you the STEP BY STEP
[12:17] <Jay> and this formula has produced successful traders
[12:18] <Jay> without the big cost of the learning curve
[12:18] <Jay> STEP BY STEP
[12:18] <Jay> shut out everything else
[12:18] <Jay> basic rules , write these on your forehead
[12:18] <Jay> rule #1 APATHY is KING
[12:19] <wage> # what ever
[12:19] <Jay> the opposite of love
[12:19] <Jay> the opposite of hate
[12:19] <Jay> all emotions
[12:19] <Jay> the kryptonite is apathy
[12:19] <Jay> APATHY = DETACHMENT = FREEDOM = OBJECTIVITY
[12:19] <Jay> makes me sick when i see someone sittin there saying "i shoulda woulda coulda shorted xyz at 22"
[12:20] <Jay> shoulda woulda coulda is BS
[12:20] <Jay> if you had it in you you DID
[12:20] <Jay> otherwise just an excuse
[12:20] <Jay> lose it
[12:20] <Jay> the notion of lost opportunity is BS
[12:20] <Jay> anyone can say dang, i shoulda bought YHOO 20 leap puts ince January 2000
[12:20] <Jay> BS
[12:21] <Jay> never worry about trades you didnt take
[12:21] <Jay> hell this is a game of foresight and reaction
[12:21] <Jay> not living in the past
[12:21] <Jay> its pathetic
[12:21] <Jay> get over it
[12:21] <Jay> APATHY is king
[12:22] <Jay> when you take a trade and walk with a .20 clip
[12:22] <Jay> and then later it sinks a dollar
[12:22] <Jay> who cares
[12:22] <Jay> not you
[12:22] <Jay> if you sit for a moment
[12:22] <Jay> and kick yourself for not holding the short
[12:22] <Jay> you cross that line
[12:22] <Jay> all that matters is the trade before you
[12:22] <Jay> simple as that
[12:22] <Jay> nothing more
[12:22] <Jay> where it goes after you exit
[12:22] <Jay> wave bye bye
[12:22] <Jay> who cares
[12:22] <Jay> not your money
[12:22] <Jay> the quicker you can attain APATHY
[12:23] <Jay> the closer you are to a mental state where you can trade
[12:23] <Jay> most newbies stumble right there
[12:23] <Jay> and end their careers
[12:23] <Jay> they feel they missing out on the action so they force trades
[12:23] <Jay> they feel they didnt take enough short last time, so they renter
[12:23] <Jay> unknowing that the premises have changed
[12:23] <Jay> these STUPID emotions will kill you
[12:23] <Jay> APATHY is KING
[12:24] <Jay> you in and you out, cest la vie go to hell or go to heaven stock, i'm just watchin now
[12:24] <Jay> rule #2 This is a GAME OF PROBABILITY so you will NEVER be 100%
[12:25] <Jay> something else i cant stand is when traders are too hard on themselves
[12:25] <Jay> no one is going to sit there and admire you for kicking yourself
[12:25] <Jay> waste of time
[12:26] <Jay> trying too hard to be 100% often times can get you STUCK in a position
[12:26] <Jay> rule #2 will help you take stops
[12:26] <Jay> stops are key in this game
[12:26] <Jay> to protect you
[12:26] <Jay> and your capital
[12:27] <Jay> rule #3 ALWAYS HAVE YOUR PREMISES and the FLIPSIDE IN MIND AHEAD OF THE TRADE
[12:27] <Jay> well, this is where we lose 90% of the newbies
[12:27] <Jay> bye bye
[12:27] <Jay> see ya
[12:27] <Jay> nice knowin ya
[12:27] <Jay> glad your apathetic and glad you know its a game of probailities
[12:27] <Jay> but you forget rule #3
[12:28] <Jay> its sayonarra
[12:28] <Jay> ok, now lets start from the beginning
[12:28] <Jay> true hunger comes from DEPRAVATION
[12:28] <Jay> to be deprived of food
[12:28] <Jay> makes you hungry
[12:28] <Jay> most people that come to Undergroundtrader have been deprived
[12:29] <Jay> they have been deprived and thus most come here very hungry
[12:29] <Jay> been deprived of knowledge
[12:29] <Jay> absolutely scratching their heads
[12:29] <Jay> asking why?
[12:29] <Jay> why does MSFT move in a 2pt range a day when there is no news
[12:29] <Jay> Why did SEBL come out with beatne earnings and gap up only to sell off?
[12:29] <Jay> why am i getting my head handed to me in the market?
[12:29] <Jay> WHY?
[12:30] <Jay> thats step one
[12:30] <Jay> you MUST be hungry
[12:30] <Jay> deprivation is good
[12:30] <Jay> first thing you got to do, is make sure that you are on a solid PLATFORM like terranova-mb.com or cybertrader.com
[12:30] <Jay> get the TOOLS
[12:30] <Jay> you can download them off the bat
[12:31] <Jay> none of this "well i want to work up to a real broker, but for now i'll just keep my datek account"
[12:31] <Jay> BS
[12:31] <Jay> first things first
[12:31] <Jay> once you get the tools
[12:31] <Jay> the tools are and in this order:
[12:31] <Jay> 1min stochastics chart + nasdaq level 2 and time of sales
[12:32] <Jay> 3 min moving averages chart
[12:32] <Jay> 1min stochastics and 3 min minute stochastics on the noodles and moving averages chart
[12:32] <Jay> 13 minute stochastics/moving averages chart
[12:32] <Jay> and 60 minute stochastics/moving averages chart
[12:32] <Jay> dont even look at any other chart
[12:32] <Jay> than the 1 minute stochastics
[12:32] <Jay> pick a basket stock
[12:33] <Jay> lets say MSFT
[12:33] <Jay> so now you are only watch nasdaq level 2 and 1 minute stochastics
[12:33] <Jay> rule of thumb 1 min stochastics under 20 band oversold 1 min stochastics over 80 band oerbought
[12:33] <Jay> hmm
[12:33] <Jay> ok..
[12:33] <Jay> so you are watching just MSFT level 2 and 1 min stochastics chart
[12:33] <Jay> looks to be working well
[12:33] <Jay> lets see, msft theres the 20 band cross
[12:33] <Jay> and stochastics bounce..
[12:33] <Jay> wow, look at MSFT level 2
[12:33] <Jay> there it goes
[12:34] <Jay> it popped
[12:34] <Jay> man i like this chart
[12:34] <Jay> my hunger is being fed here
[12:34] <Jay> making some sense ...
[12:34] <Jay> theres msft above 80 band
[12:34] <Jay> and 1 min stochastics slipping 80 band
[12:34] <Jay> wow
[12:34] <Jay> there it goes MSFT selling
[12:34] <Jay> this is great!
[12:34] <Jay> i've figured it all out
[12:34] <Jay> yeeeha
[12:34] <Jay> later on..
[12:34] <Jay> lets see
[12:34] <Jay> MSFT 1 min stochastics under 20 band
[12:35] <Jay> here we go
[12:35] <Jay> wait a minute..
[12:35] <Jay> MSFT is dropping
[12:35] <Jay> hmmm
[12:35] <Jay> ok theres the pop
[12:35] <Jay> msft uptick .05
[12:35] <Jay> here we go...
[12:35] <Jay> wait..
[12:35] <Jay> damn it just dropped lower
[12:35] <Jay> what the hell is wrong with this piece of crap chart?
[12:35] <Jay> why aint it working??
[12:35] <Jay> hungry again?
[12:35] <steele> hmm
[12:35] <Jay> feed yourself to the 3 min moving averages chart
[12:36] <Jay> now you only watching 2 charts
[12:36] <Jay> 1 minute stochastics and 3 min moving averages
[12:36] <Jay> and understand this
[12:36] <Jay> the 1 minute stochastics works great
[12:36] <Jay> as long as there is not a TREND
[12:36] <Jay> and voila
[12:36] <Jay> now it makes sense
[12:36] <Jay> MSFT is downtrending
[12:36] <mikel> no noodles - just level 2 and 1min? then 3min
[12:36] <Jay> and it cant break that 5 period moving average down
[12:37] <Jay> thats why its not bouncing
[12:37] <Jay> mikel, let me finish
[12:37] <Jay> steele, this was your QCOM stock yesterday ;)
[12:37] <steele> yes
[12:37] <Jay> as i was saying
[12:37] <Jay> now that makes sense
[12:37] <Jay> hmmm
[12:37] <Jay> 1 min stocahstics bounces only work
[12:37] <Jay> best when there is no trend
[12:37] <Jay> ok
[12:37] <Jay> just watching these 2 charts
[12:38] <Jay> you assimilate and take it in
[12:38] <Jay> no papertrading
[12:38] <Jay> no trading at all
[12:38] <Jay> watch the moves
[12:38] <Jay> suddenly on the downtrend
[12:38] <Jay> 1 min stochastics bounce through 20 band
[12:38] <Jay> and MSFT bounces
[12:38] <Jay> but WHY??
[12:38] <Jay> i thought on a downtrend msft should bounce
[12:38] <Jay> you look at the chart
[12:38] <Jay> play detective
[12:38] <Jay> hmmm
[12:39] <Jay> ealier msft 1 min stochastics tried to bounce but couldnt break the 5 period
[12:39] <Jay> but this time the 1 minute stochastics broke the 5 period
[12:39] <Jay> and stochastics are moving up here
[12:39] <Jay> there it goes
[12:39] <Jay> to 80 band
[12:39] <Jay> and there it slips
[12:39] <Jay> where did it slip?
[12:39] <Jay> the 15 period !
[12:39] <Jay> hmmm
[12:39] <Jay> what can i derive from that?
[12:39] <Jay> if the 5 period bases
[12:39] <Jay> then the stochastics can bounce
[12:39] <Jay> to maximum of 15 period
[12:40] <Jay> makes sense
[12:40] <Jay> so if i was long, i would look to sell the 15 period exit
[12:40] <Jay> now an interesting thing happens
[12:40] <Jay> msft 1 minute stochastics comes back down to 20 band
[12:40] <Jay> but this time msft holding up around 15 period
[12:40] <Jay> is it still a downtrend?
[12:40] <Jay> no
[12:40] <Jay> then 1 min stochastics bounces from 20 band and msft breaking through 15 period
[12:41] <Jay> what the hell is going on here?
[12:41] <Jay> hey the 3 min chart is showing me a crossover and that funny 3 shift line is crossing up too
[12:41] <Jay> what the hell just happened?
[12:41] <Jay> allow me to introduce to you the 1min and 3 min FUTURES chart
[12:42] <Jay> now watch and coirreleate
[12:42] <Jay> everything you know about the 1 minute chart works the same on the noodles
[12:42] <Jay> when the nodles bounce MSFT will bounce
[12:42] <Jay> the noodles trend will affect MSFT's trend
[12:42] <Jay> what was jay talking about the other day
[12:42] <Jay> the 3.5 strike trend reversal?
[12:42] <Jay> hmmm
[12:42] <Jay> lets see
[12:42] <Jay> for a trend to reverse
[12:43] <Jay> it needs to base the 5 period on the 3 minute chart
[12:43] <Jay> which msft did
[12:43] <Jay> and the 1 min ute stochastics bounced
[12:43] <Jay> and i see 1 min noodles bounced too on the stochastics
[12:43] <Jay> and then the 3 min stochastics rising above 20 band
[12:43] <Jay> strike 2 is the 15 period stops falling and a consolidation forms
[12:43] <Jay> hmmm, i guess when MSFT stochastics slipped and held near 15 period thats when it stopped falling
[12:44] <Jay> 2.5 strike is a buyfade, that means when the 1 minute futures fell and 1 minute stochastics slipped on msft it should have fallen
[12:44] <Jay> but it DIDNT
[12:44] <Jay> and the 3 minute noodles are still up
[12:44] <Jay> and the 3.5 strike is when the 1 minute stochastics bounces and msft break through 15 period
[12:44] <Jay> and that 3 shift confirms it
[12:44] <Jay> AHA!!!
[12:44] <Jay> now it makes sense
[12:44] <Jay> that was a 3.5 strike trend reversal
[12:45] <Jay> interesting
[12:45] <Jay> so then you watch
[12:45] <Jay> and notice that the noodles tend to move before MSFT
[12:45] <Jay> thats called a LEAD indicator
[12:45] <Jay> so when the noodles bounce MSFT will bounce and when they slip msft will slip
[12:45] <Jay> i feel the light starting to turn on in my head
[12:46] <Jay> all i am doing now is just watching the SYNERGY
[12:46] <Jay> not trading
[12:46] <Jay> not papertrading
[12:46] <Jay> for DAYS i do nothing but watch
[12:46] <Jay> and meticulously note when MSFT doesnt move with the noodles
[12:46] <Jay> why is that?
[12:46] <Jay> play detective
[12:46] <Jay> what was different this time?
[12:46] <Jay> hmmm i see the 3 minute noodles ma's are flat
[12:46] <Jay> consolidation
[12:46] <Jay> means should get no action
[12:46] <Jay> and thats right msft isnt moving much more than a .20 range
[12:47] <Jay> i also notice all the big moves happen earlier and then die in the mid afternoon
[12:47] <Jay> that what jay calls deadzone
[12:47] <Jay> one day i see noodles fall but MSFT stays up
[12:47] <Jay> and moving higher
[12:47] <Jay> and then when the noodles bounced MSFT moves even higher
[12:47] <Jay> that what jay calls a buy fade
[12:47] <Jay> interesting
[12:48] <Jay> one day the volume is very light
[12:48] <Jay> and cant get a read on mSFT at all
[12:48] <Jay> just moving up and down on the 1 minute stochastics
[12:48] <Jay> really nice
[12:48] <Jay> then all of a sudden, MSFT sells off hard
[12:48] <Jay> was there news?!?!
[12:48] <Jay> (hehe typical newbie reaction)
[12:48] <Jay> i look at the chart and see the 3 minute chart broke down
[12:48] <Jay> could i have seen that coming in this light volume?
[12:49] <Jay> allow me to introduce to you the 13minute adn 60 minute charts
[12:49] <Jay> aha i see that mini inverse pup formation on the noodles
[12:49] <Jay> so lets put this all together
[12:49] <Jay> when i get a 60 min down chart, and a 13 min down stochastics chart and the 3 minute chart breaks i often get a lot of faster panic
[12:49] <Jay> that whats called a 3 lane highway
[12:50] <Jay> because the 3 minute chart gives me initial gain, then wiggle then 13 min chart middle gain and 60 min chart bigger gain
[12:50] <Jay> hmm
[12:50] <Jay> why is it sometimes i see MSFT fall fast and then bounce back 1/2 way?
[12:50] <Jay> must be those 2.50 and sticky 5's levels, because they seem congested
[12:51] <bigkahuna> viola msft
[12:51] <Jay> what about when i see msft break a round number, i notice usually it will hit .10 and then slip again
[12:51] <Jay> thats called the coil overshoots
[12:51] <Jay> hmm how can i capitalize on that?
[12:51] <Jay> maybe if i am long i can SELL into that .10 BEFORE it slips back
[12:51] <Jay> get the picture guys?
[12:51] <Jay> all this is happening
[12:51] <Jay> without ONE SINGLE TRADE
[12:51] <Jay> this is the process of building a foundation
[12:52] <Jay> question the moves
[12:52] <Jay> and FIND the answers
[12:52] <Jay> and then NOTICE the similarities
[12:52] <Jay> play detective
[12:52] <Jay> that is the only way you will learn
[12:52] <Jay> this process of just watching should happen for at least 2 straight weeks
[12:52] <Jay> without a papertrade
[12:52] <Jay> failing this
[12:52] <steele> ok
[12:52] <Jay> miss this step
[12:52] <Jay> and you are just putting the cart in front of the horse
[12:53] <Jay> this is a long tedious process
[12:53] <Jay> and you havent even begun papertrading yet
[12:53] <Jay> after 2 weeks of this
[12:53] <Jay> then you practice papertrading one stock day in and day out
[12:53] <Jay> start only with scalps
[12:53] <Jay> hit 70% consistency then go live with 100 sahres after 2-4 weeks
[12:54] <Jay> and work the coil and panic overshoots
[12:54] <Jay> to perfection
[12:54] <Jay> if msft breaks 53 you sell 53.05 to 53.10
[12:54] <Jay> out
[12:54] <Jay> maybe it goes to 53.50
[12:54] <Jay> APATHY
[12:54] <Jay> why did it go?
[12:54] <Jay> explain
[12:54] <Jay> then you see noodles ma pup breakout
[12:54] <Jay> perhaps it was the open and more volume
[12:54] <Jay> rack up 70% consistency
[12:54] <Jay> before moving to more shares and larger time frames
[12:55] <Jay> this is just the beginning of the journey
[12:55] <Jay> once you get to 1000 shares
[12:55] <Jay> then you can practice paring
[12:55] <Jay> by then you realize 53.10 IS a coil overshoot and yes I WILL clip it, BUT the noodles are pretty strong and i will pare and use the 5 period ma as trailing stop
[12:55] <Jay> by this time you evolve as a trader
[12:55] <Jay> comfortable
[12:56] <Jay> you know the stock after months of watching
[12:56] <Jay> testing the waters
[12:56] <Jay> seen it in every situation
[12:56] <Jay> then you are ready to keep increasing size
[12:56] <Jay> and realize some days you cant play much size
[12:56] <Jay> one day you will go overboard and get smacked
[12:56] <Jay> you past your comfort zone
[12:56] <Jay> no biggie, you trim the size back down
[12:56] <Jay> eventually you will make every mistake
[12:57] <Jay> but the ability to be resilient, brush it off and come back grows
[12:57] <Jay> like a baby whos immune systems improves with AGE
[12:57] <Jay> and this is the EVOLUTION of TRADER
[12:57] <Jay> so you see why i am terrified
[12:57] <Jay> when newbies come in here
[12:57] <Jay> and start playing 1k shares on trade alerts
[12:57] <Jay> with no clue
[12:57] <Jay> terrifying indeed
[12:57] <Jay> look at everything they skipped
[12:57] <Jay> to get to an end result
[12:58] <Jay> which they havent earned
[12:58] <Jay> and will give back many times over
[12:58] <Jay> okee dokee kids
[12:58] <Jay> thats the lesson for today ;)
[12:58] <steele> Jay please save this
[12:58] <Jay> let this be a wake up call
[12:58] <wage> great job jay thanks
[12:58] <Jay> i cant save you steele, only YOU can save yourself
[12:58] <haamu> thanks jay -- you earn your keep
[12:58] <steele> No i mean Save this lesson
[12:58] <Jay> we are the place of last resort gang
[12:58] <Jay> and i am proud of that
[12:58] <Jay> the people that come to the pit
[12:59] <Jay> have been hurt out there
[12:59] <Jay> and we want to privde the answers
[12:59] <Jay> give you the knowledge that wont take you 3 years to learn by trial and error
[12:59] <Jay> thats just my methods
[12:59] <Jay> ral's methods span much deeeper
[12:59] <Jay> and once my methods are learned you need to study ral's
[13:00] <Jay> and then you will either choose one method or find a way to mix them up
[13:00] <Jay> together for a nice blend
[13:00] <Jay> but let me tell something
[13:00] <Jay> and i rarely talk about the upside of being a trader
[13:00] <Jay> but you should know that it gives you a lot of freedom
[13:01] <Jay> there are many upsides
[13:01] <Jay> to being good at this game
[13:01] <Jay> you gotta love it
[13:01] <Jay> but be able to temper that hunger with discipline
[13:01] <Jay> and APATHY
[13:01] <Jay> ;)
[13:01] <Jay> ok gang
[13:01] <Jay> back to the pit
[13:01] <max> Thank you
[13:01] <bigkahuna> awesome
[13:01] <mikel> thanks jay
[13:01] <steele> Jay are you gonna post this somewher eon the site so i can reread ?
[13:01] <om> thx
[13:01] <martinng> I will be back next sunday, amen
[13:01] <haamu> This has been my best day of trading....Even tho not the most $$$$ . ... because it has been my best day of listening and watching
[13:02] <Jay> I am going to also post this seminar in trader training titled "ALL NEWBIES READ!!! "
[13:02] <Jay> ;)
[13:02] <steele> Thanks
[13:02] <Jay> thanks gang :)
[13:02] <Jay> poof